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Beast Master Expertise System

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r0zm4n
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:56 am

Postby r0zm4n » Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:00 am

[color=orange:a080814cdd]That's a fantastic post Iakimo, so much so I feel kinda guilty writing a short reply ...and actually before I get to that, it's no where near $25 a month Martyk luv. I pay less than 8 so I don't know where you got that figure from, Station Access maybe?

Anyway, back to the above post.

Actually let me digress just once more (lol!), I had previously stated that we'd never see the danger days of planetary travel. Well, on TC at the moment, CL90 Elder Jedi are getting pwnd by random spawns. In fact there was a hilarious post where a group including 90's got mugged by a lone CL92 Bol of some kind, which stomped all over them and promptly levelled to CL93 and went on its way. Awesome :P

So again, back to your post Iakimo.

The short answer is, if you were to post this on the SWG boards it would never get a response. Actually scratch that, the new management does have a habit of sticking it's neck out occasionally and being honest. They might just respond to say that they can't do that but I'd guarantee that they, not just won't, but can't.

Having played SWG since release you get a strong sense that post NGE, the number of staff working on the game was slashed. Every publish (Chapters they call them now) they set themselves a very definitive goal. To add something new. You can see them straining to meet these, by comparison to the changes of old, modest additions. They complete them and then they move on. Huge, sweeping, All encompassing revamps like the CU, NGE or the implementation of something like your idea are never going to happen again. Not necesssarily because they've learned their lesson, simply because they don't have the resources.

That's the 'bad' news. The Good news is that those additions they make are way, way better thought out and tested. Each new block is far more sensible and stable so the game has a far greater sense of balance.

You're right, at this moment in time, commando's and medics pwn in PvP but there has never, ever, been a game with PvP in it that doesn't have it's uber template. I remember when everyone knew Rifleman was Uber, then Combat Medics, then TKA and so on.. there were far more 'this is the new uber template's but they were always there and much of the PvP crowd would keep switching to keep winning. There will be a balance pass in time and then something else will be Uber and Restuss will be full of them, combat ents maybe :twisted:

What to me made SWG GREAT back in 2003 and 2004 was the community. Ultimately, the community was what took the hardest hit with NGE. In 2007, I think we've finally got that great sense of Community back again. & I still say that the emu won't be finalized and go live for an age and when it does, will it have that community? I think you'll get a lot of vets log in for a month or two, remenisce a lot and then leave ...and tellingly, that's the first thing I've written which is *just* my opinion, all of the NGE stuff I've said is based in fact.

Cool. 8) [/color:a080814cdd]
Iakimo
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Postby Iakimo » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:38 pm

Thanks for the kudos on my last post, r0z. it's nice to know it when one's effort is appreciated.

LOL... I hear you about the SWG community being the game's greatest asset. On that front, I share your sentiment that a great community/player base will generally find a way to [i:6dcfe06948]make[/i:6dcfe06948] a game great.

That said, I still differentiate between the community and the game. If a great community can make (for the sake of argument) a bad game into a great experience, my thought would be that the same great community could take a great game and make it absolutely world-beating.

I also hear what you are saying about the unlikelihood of the devs revisiting the core of their game. I'm not particularly optimistic that the devs would respond to my suggestions or say to themselves, \"Gee, what were we thinking all this time?? Let's DO this!\" or something. Still, it doesn't stop me from [i:6dcfe06948]asking,[/i:6dcfe06948] or trying to identify the essential characteristics I miss in my games.

Still, I have this nagging sense that maybe the devs [i:6dcfe06948]have[/i:6dcfe06948] listened to me at some points in the past. For example, I remember tossing a suggestion for a \"Battle of Restuss\" into the GCW forum at one point prior to my initial subscription running out back in early 2006 as an example of things the devs could to to increase player traffic into seldom-visited worlds. The idea I suggested was that if the devs ever decided they wanted to do something to \"make a splash,\" they could do something dramatic like vaporize a city, and that an ideal site for that would be Restuss, a city with overtones of Rebel sympathies. And then, they could convert the ruins into a PvP arena.

Coincidence? Just one voice among many others suggesting such a thing? Perhaps....

Interestingly, one of the things I specifically mentioned in another rant when I'd reactivated during the '06 Thanksgiving/Christmas holidays was my deep disappointment over the loss of entertainment value in sites like the Rebel and Imperial Theme Parks. And now, lo and behold, the announcement came last month that the devs were working on adding high-level missions to the Rebel Theme Park!

So, I don't know... I'm not one to be fatalistic about my (lack of) influence. My view is, it never hurts to [i:6dcfe06948]try.[/i:6dcfe06948] At the very least, I now get to wonder, \"Gee, did my input really make a difference...?\"

I'm no software engineer, so I can't say definitively what it would take to tweak the NGE source code in such a way as to enable it to recreate the expansive feel of the original game environment. Basically, I figure it's some variant on the lines of, \"If a character or creature is X level, apply such-and-such multiplier to that character/creature's base damage output, and divide that by the target's level-based multiplier.\"

If that's the case, it would seem like it would be a relatively easy task to tweak or eliminate those level-based modifiers.

Looking at SWG in the context of its competitive environment, I think a return to a model that would re-establish the expansive feel of the original game's galaxy would help SWG immensely. The way I see it, EVERYONE is doing some variant of a level-based world, simply because \"that's what works.\" But I do NOT prefer these level-based models. As many others have observed, it's the difference between playing a game and noodling around in a virtual world.

I want my worlds back! :lol:
Iakimo Wioga, Jedi Padawan
Former Master Bounty Hunter/Master Creature Handler

SOE SUCKS!!!
Iakimo
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Re:

Postby Iakimo » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:51 pm

[quote:5436e38182=\"r0zm4n\"][color=orange:5436e38182]...Huge, sweeping, All encompassing revamps like the CU, NGE or the implementation of something like your idea are never going to happen again. Not necesssarily because they've learned their lesson, simply because they don't have the resources....
[/color:5436e38182][/quote:5436e38182]
Again, I understand what you're saying. However, there was a post by John Smedley back sometime last summer or so, in which he speculated about a 2nd-generation SWG, or a SWG-2. Basically, he said it wouldn't be too farfetched to think they might start preliminary work on such a project \"sometime in 2007 or 2008.\" It was NOT any official Announcement Of Some Big Secret Project or [i:5436e38182]anything[/i:5436e38182] -- it was just Smed's acknowledgement that yes, everything eventually becomes obsolete in the realm of computer software.

The point is, this version of SWG is NOT set in permacrete. It never will be. This version might be essentially the core for as long as this iteration of a Star Wars MMORPG is in existence, but there is always a Future Version [i:5436e38182]somewhere.[/i:5436e38182] And if I can do something to help tilt the creative juices of whomever winds up developing said Future Version into a direction (be it a revamp of the existing SWG, or the initial design of a SWG-2)I would prefer... well, hey... I'd think it worthwhile.
Iakimo Wioga, Jedi Padawan

Former Master Bounty Hunter/Master Creature Handler



SOE SUCKS!!!
r0zm4n
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:56 am

Postby r0zm4n » Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:31 am

[color=orange:428c48f99b]Well in short flower I couldn't really agree more. The implementation of the CL system instantly destroyed the Exploration aspect of much of the game and a new game based on the original idea of selected and staged skill additions and sequences would be the Holy Grail for anyone who experienced it. An SWG2 (and there was a further comment made sometime later by an LA representative in a HOC chat that suggested work had already begun and had a slated release date of 2009 by the way) that managed to succeed where the pre-CU failed would.. well it would make me a very happy girl indeed :wink: If you think posting your thoughts now might in some small way influence such a glorious potential outcome then I urge you to do just that. I'll /sign it and with gusto :P [/color:428c48f99b]
martyk
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Re:

Postby martyk » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:19 am

[quote:11d051c3c0=\"r0zm4n\"][color=orange:11d051c3c0]That's a fantastic post Iakimo, so much so I feel kinda guilty writing a short reply... ...all of the NGE stuff I've said is based in fact.

Cool. 8) [/color:11d051c3c0][/quote:11d051c3c0]

Ok, for starters, I'm Canadian, and for me it's $25. Trust me, I paid it for 2.5 years. One other thing, yes there will be no more widespread changes like the NGE and whatnot, but the new update system isn't that great either. Do you forget? Expertise took months to be released for everyone, what with them only giving it to 2 profs per chapter, starting of course with their favourites Jedi and BH.
SHAZAM!
Iakimo
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Re:

Postby Iakimo » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:28 pm

[quote:a5411e95d8=\"martyk\"][quote:a5411e95d8=\"r0zm4n\"][color=orange:a5411e95d8]That's a fantastic post Iakimo, so much so I feel kinda guilty writing a short reply... ...all of the NGE stuff I've said is based in fact.

Cool. 8) [/color:a5411e95d8][/quote:a5411e95d8]

Ok, for starters, I'm Canadian, and for me it's $25....[/quote:a5411e95d8]
Heh... I'd always heard Canadian dollars and US dollars were valued differently. Totally different currencies, both using the same name....
Iakimo Wioga, Jedi Padawan

Former Master Bounty Hunter/Master Creature Handler



SOE SUCKS!!!
Iakimo
Field Biologist
Field Biologist
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:31 am
Location: Somewhere north of Bree. (\"Oh... real life? Erm... Huntsville, AL... I think...\")

Re:

Postby Iakimo » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:49 pm

[quote:973584183a=\"r0zm4n\"][color=orange:973584183a]Well in short flower I couldn't really agree more. The implementation of the CL system instantly destroyed the Exploration aspect of much of the game and a new game based on the original idea of selected and staged skill additions and sequences would be the Holy Grail for anyone who experienced it. An SWG2 (and there was a further comment made sometime later by an LA representative in a HOC chat that suggested work had already begun and had a slated release date of 2009 by the way) that managed to succeed where the pre-CU failed would.. well it would make me a very happy girl indeed :wink: If you think posting your thoughts now might in some small way influence such a glorious potential outcome then I urge you to do just that. I'll /sign it and with gusto :P [/color:973584183a][/quote:973584183a]
Hmmmm... a HOC chat with a LA official talking about a SWG-2? Interesting!

At the moment, my SWG sub is on hiatus again, so I can't offer comments into the SWG Forum myself. I'll have to leave that to current subscribers who might see this thread, and others like it on forums I do have access to, like Allakhazam.com or whatever.

Mainly, my goal here is to clarify my own thought on what I [i:973584183a]really[/i:973584183a] believe is the essence of the gameplay style I like and why... and hopefully do my part to help others similarly focus their requests -- and hopefully elevate the debate beyond the usual \"Bring back pre-CU!\" refrain.

I've played level-based RPGs literally for decades, starting in 1978 with pen-and-paper 1st-Edition Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. I'm old enough to remember waiting impatiently for each of the hardcover books (the Players Handbook, Monster Manual, and Dungeon Masters Guide) to come out, and I vividly remember passionate debates between my group of friends and a group of [i:973584183a]Traveller[/i:973584183a] afficionados over whether a level-based system was better, or a skills-based system was better.

In that context, SWG came as a revelation of sorts for me, because it was the first system I'd seen that really made a skills-based system good enough to rival the familiar level-based model. But with the huge financial success of WoW, I fear big-project developers will show their herd instincts once more and do yet another copy of AD&D's venerable (and admittedly very generic) mechanic.

And so, if my posts here help us all elevate our game as a group, then I will be happy. That would be what the military would refer to as a \"force multiplier.\"

Heh... \"FORCE multiplier?\" Hoo-hah.... I'll keep the pun. hee-hee... erm... (clears throat)...uh, sorry....
Iakimo Wioga, Jedi Padawan

Former Master Bounty Hunter/Master Creature Handler



SOE SUCKS!!!
velm
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Postby velm » Sun May 06, 2007 8:42 am

as far as i am concerned, SWG is nothing but a fond memory now. I got a month long subscription not too long ago (april to be preciese.) the worlds were just devoid of people. there were a few areas of people, but those i did see acted mostly like the the 'I pwn Joo' crowd.

what i liked mostly about the game before was the fact that there was so much to do as a Creature Handler. Hunting for rares was so much fun. I would also be commissioned by different people for organic resources. With the current state of SWG, the hunting for rares is no longer there. the crafting aspect of the game has also been radically altered. there is no longer equipment decay.

Now, I have been reading about beast mastery, however, it seems too much like bio engineer to me. not only does it seem too much like BE, but after reading about all the different resources that are required, it just seems like too much running around getting different resources just to power the incubator.

so, i tried the current SWG, and it just didnt have anything for me. the graphics seem out of date, the crowd is different, my favorite class is gone, the game is my cup of tea.
MCH/Master Scout/ Rifleman 2/2/1/3/ Ranger 0/0/3/0

(actually, i dropped the ranger and became a master rifleman before the NGE)

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